TRANSCRIPT: Conversations with the Dean: Stephen Dobson | Ep 3 | Patrick Connor

Patrick Connor (00:00):

I've increasingly become fascinated by color. To answer your question, it's like its own universe and it's, um, come miracle. It shape shifts all the time and you really can't, um, pin it down. And it is quite remarkable the way we relate to color. Welcome.

Professor Stephen Dobson (00:19):

Today. I've been, uh, waiting to have a conversation with Pat Connor, and before we get going on this and what he does, we'll just do our, uh, acknowledgement. And we acknowledge we're land on the land of the dur ramble people, and we acknowledge the custodians of the lands past, present, and emerging. And we, uh, in the spirit of reconciliation, we thank them for letting us have this conversation, uh, Kiwi opening and that, that last kind of welcome and getting us ready for the meeting talks about the winds and the landscape and, uh, that we are gonna be present. So it, it kind of talks about what we are gonna be talking about. And when I first arrived in Rockhampton, I was waiting outside of somebody's office, and there was this fantastic picture of, uh, a mine. I'm not sure if it was a coal mine, maybe it was a coal mine in oil about, uh, a meter and a half by meter and a half, um, on a wall, uh, and in the middle of these kind of coal faces.

Professor Stephen Dobson (01:39):

And it was an open, it wasn't a deep, mine was a, a blue vacuum cleaner. And, and I thought, Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder what that's about. And then I looked at the side, there was a little labor, uh, labeled Pat Connor, and it, and it belongs to our university. And I remember asking somebody in the office, I said, um, do these paintings ever get moved around the university? And then, and I said, I'd love that one. And lo and behold, a week later it was being moved around and I had it. So I'm privileged to be able speaking to you, pat, and, um, we'll be talking about art and things. And so, so could you just tell me, so who are you? Hmm.

Patrick Connor (02:24):

That's a very existential question. Um,

Professor Stephen Dobson (02:26):

Share what you want.

Patrick Connor (02:28):

I grew up in central Queensland. In fact, I was born, um, not far from here in our, um, public, uh, health system and grew up on the other side of the river and spent most of my early childhood and, um, I guess young adolescent life knocking about these regions and, and ultimately went off to college as a lot of people. A lot of people do. Mm-Hmm.

Professor Stephen Dobson (02:53):

<affirmative>. So what took you into the world of art? Have you always been, were a little kid painting on whatever you could get? What, what, what has taken you into this world?

Patrick Connor (03:03):

That's a really good question, Stephen. Uh, yes, I was always very interested in the visual arts. I think, um, people who find themselves drawing and, uh, continue to draw, often gravitate towards visually creative disciplines. Mm-Hmm. And I guess, um, I could identify with, you know, being one of those kinds of characters. Um, probably also a little bit more introverted than extroverted. I was never going to be on the stage. I, I'd be the world's worst comedian. I can guarantee that <laugh>. Um, but probably was quite comfortable, um, observing things. I get a great deal of pleasure out of looking at things around me, and, uh, maybe picking up a, a pencil as a young kid was a part of that. Um, and probably showed a little bit of proficiency, um, sufficient, I think, um, interest and proficiency for my mother to, um, to see if I wanted to, you know, do a little bit of training. Mm-Hmm. And I remember going to, um, a place on a Saturday morning underneath someone's, uh, a lady's house. It's called a, um, vanity School of Art. And, um, I guess I picked up a paintbrush there and in particular, mm-Hmm. You know, started with gu and oils and, um, tried to understand a reasonable method for being able to picture the things that I did see around me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Professor Stephen Dobson (04:23):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And of course, uh, um, I should have told the people that were, who are watching now, of course, you are an accomplished painter, uh, accomplished printmaker. And, um, you didn't just fall into it. So from, from here as the little kid on a Saturday morning to now becoming both, uh, an accomplished in the skill of that and teaching will come back to what was the journey.

Patrick Connor (04:52):

Mm-Hmm. Well, thank you for, um, thank you for those kind words. Mm-Hmm. From my point of view, um, sometimes you don't really celebrate all that well, their achievements. All you see is the shortcomings. Mm-Hmm. Um, just, uh, recently one of my students finished off one of her oral assessments with the comment that there's always so much more to learn. And, um, that's indeed the case. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, after I finished up, uh, with schooling here in central Queensland, I went to Toowoomba to do an undergraduate visual arts degree. And that's where I really got my formative training. And, um, I certainly don't regret ever making that decision to do that. Mm. It's, um, it's been a really wild and exciting journey ever since. And to now find myself, uh, teaching in a ba I couldn't imagine doing anything else. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, obviously I enjoy the craft. I also very much enjoy being a student. And, um, I enjoy being a teacher. So, um, I think, you know, with, with those interests, uh, I, I feel like I'm very lucky to find myself in this situation. I can't imagine doing anything else. In fact, I really love what I do. Mm-Hmm

Professor Stephen Dobson (06:01):

Mm-Hmm. And, uh, of course, the thing with art is it's, it, um, one of the intriguing things. It's about multiple skills. Do you feel that, uh, when you started out, and I referred to this lovely big oil painting, um, you probably had other ideas when you were working and trying things were, were, did you fall into doing oils or, or, and you and I have had a conversation about, we were talking about watercolors and for me, watercolors as, as you shared in that conversation with, you know, you, you kind of, you make your decision, bang, you're gone. Mm-Hmm. You either get it right or wrong, there's no way back. And Mm-Hmm. Were you exploring these kind of things in your kind of formative art years?

Patrick Connor (06:47):

Uh, yeah. You do. I guess, um, with respects to the first part of your question as it related to that painting, um, I did have some other things in mind. And, uh, it was a part of a body of work that was exhibited, uh, locally here at our regional art gallery. And, um, you know, that was a, a great opportunity for me. And just prior to that, I had been offered an alternate, um, sort of vocational pathway. There was a job, uh, working at one of our local central Queensland mines. There were some aspects of the job that were attractive, particularly the remuneration was <laugh>, um, significantly higher than my pay packet as a government employee. Mm. Um, but there were other aspects of that, particularly the politics around, um, being employed by, um, a company that digs big, big holes in the ground to extract coal Mm.

Patrick Connor (07:44):

Was something of concern to me. And I, um, so that quandary, um, really provided an opportunity to ponder a range of different things. And in particular, thinking about not just, um, our local economy and how much it's supported by our local industries, including, um, the coal fields just, um, northwest of here. Um, naturally our state economy and also our, um, you know, federal GDP seems so heavily dependent on, um, the sale of commodities overseas. Uh, so that, um, really kind of microcosm, if you like, that personal experience where, um, the ethical considerations were playing around in my head and left a kind of quandary for me. I thought when played out larger in a more, you know, in a broader social setting, um, wasn't dissimilar. And that provided an avenue for a way of thinking about maybe an exhibition. And, um, thinking about the, mm, I hadn't really painted landscape paintings in such a long time, and there was, um, an opportunity to return, I guess, to the landscape, um, using it. Um, and the, so a tradition of Australian landscape painting is a backdrop for that conversation. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.

Professor Stephen Dobson (08:58):

It's very, it's very interesting, very interesting. And, uh, and I think I just, uh, let the viewers know as well. And, uh, and I recently discovered that you're actually now embarking on, uh, uh, a master of arts. And in, in, in the world of like creative and performance arts, uh, people don't really do doctorates, you know, that isn't really the kind of thing they do. They, they do the master of, sometimes in America they call it master of fine arts, I believe, isn't it? And, uh, I see, again, you're quite interested in that, um, societal statement and you're grappling with what is, uh, planetary art. Mm-Hmm.

Patrick Connor (09:42):

Um, if I was to draw back a little bit Mm-Hmm. From, um, the specifics of that question. Mm-Hmm. Stephen, I think for contemporary artists, um, particularly, uh, as a result of some pivotal shifts in European and American visual arts practices in the latter part of the 20th century, I'm, I'm particularly thinking around 19, um, 68 through the early seventies, things really shifted a lot. And, um, I believe that, uh, many people in the art world, shall we call it establishments, um, that was mostly European driven, really were kind of reflecting on, um, the value of art. Hmm. And, uh, at that time, there were a range of ways of thinking about it. And some Marxist discourses seem to be useful as a way of reflecting on how, um, gallery systems worked and how that maybe had impacts on the way we understand what those objects are. And, uh, I think as a result of that, contemporary visual artists actually probably more keen than ever to try to make work that is, um, reasonably accessible, but more importantly, um, is relevant to people on the street and has some kind of relationship to our contemporary world and our society. Mm-Hmm. And, um, I guess maybe that's, uh, more recently reflecting on those things and my own practice Mm-Hmm. Um, trying to develop a kind of cogency and relevance with the work by thinking in those terms.

Professor Stephen Dobson (11:16):

Mm-Hmm. Oh, that will be something worth following. Mm-Hmm. Thank you for office conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:21):

You're very welcome. Thank you.

Professor Stephen Dobson (11:29):

Hello again. This is our second conversation. Pat, I have a question, a very simple question. What does color mean to you?

Patrick Connor (11:40):

That's a challenging one to respond to Stephen. Uh, maybe a good way of beginning to answer is I can remember at college, uh, reading a book, and it was very much a part of the tradition of thinking about, uh, visual arts education. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what do you put in a curriculum? What do you teach people? Mm-Hmm. And there had been this ongoing debate between the significance of drawing and design, uh, as a very kind of graphic sort of notion of design. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and thinking about color. And I remember reading that, and I knew where my sympathies were. And it was, um, more about being graphic. That made a whole lot of sense to me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, the world of color, however, was something that I, I believe that I, uh, was challenged by. I always found it a bit tricky. And, um, it probably wasn't until I moved back to Rockhampton and met a local artist here who's had a big impact on, um, visual arts education and visual arts in the region.

Speaker 1 (12:46):

And, uh, he's a terrific, well, was a terrific colorist. And, um, I was able to learn a lot of things from, from Peter and Dan's, including ways of thinking about color. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, particularly at the Bauhaus, there was a kind of, at the time there was a lot of educational reforms going on, um, in and around the war period, uh, in, in Europe, uh, so interwar period. And, um, it was sort of like getting back to basics and things like color became really key concepts in, um, visual art and craft sorts of education systems. And I think, uh, across the 20th century, um, we've borrowed a lot from the Bauhaus Mm-Hmm. And their particular ways of thinking about color. And Joseph Albers spent quite a bit of time thinking about theories of color, but also developing his own. But from an experiential point of view, mm-Hmm.

Patrick Connor (13:41):

<affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. Uh, when, um, when you first start looking into color, you come across Gier and Newton, which is really about optics and physics. Mm-Hmm. But designers are more keen on how color relates to color in a given context. And, um, that's right up Alba's Alley. And that's was far more practical, and it made a lot of sense to me. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, I've increasingly become fascinated by color. To answer your question, it's like its own universe. Mm-Hmm. And it's, um, come miracle, it shape shifts all the time. Mm-Hmm. And you really can't, um, pin it down. And it is quite remarkable the way we relate to color.

Professor Stephen Dobson (14:19):

And, and I, I know everybody has their own relationship. For me, it's the, the, the beauty of being able to actually mix those colors. So, so that leads me to the second difficult question is, so what do you teach when you're teaching art? 'cause I mean, you're gonna grapple with all of these things. You're gonna be teaching color, you're gonna be teaching for, on content, all of these things. So do you have a teaching philosophy?

Patrick Connor (14:45):

I think every teacher does, otherwise they get out of the profession. Um, there's, there's two, two ways I might think about that. Mm-Hmm. You've got your curriculum, so you've, you're being employed by somebody to do something, and for that to have merit, it's gotta have an underlying backbone, a structure Mm-Hmm. Where there's intent that, um, generally there's been a collective to determine the potential benefits of that curriculum. So you are referring to that, but you are also referring to your own experiences, and you value add to that curriculum, and you effectively attempt to bring it alive through your own experiences. How else can you do it? Uh, but, um, I think particularly my years teaching in vocational education, I could see that it was very important to also try to work out where the student was coming from in order to be an effective teacher to them.

Patrick Connor (15:38):

Not just a teacher of the curriculum, but a person that, um, is a little bit of a pivot in a conversation whereby, um, you can help them begin to unwrap what their own interests are interesting. And work out, okay, well, this particular student is interested in these dimensions of that craft. And rather than kind of seeing everybody as the same, of course, you, it seems fair in a creative discipline to try to work out how to connect the curriculum to an individual's interest. Mm-Hmm. Um, and suddenly the whole thing becomes really fun and exciting. Then if what you are doing is not a performance, but a facilitator to try and unlock some kind of, uh, dimension within, you know, that student who's there because they're keen, and how do you kind of like that fuse? How do you kind of get them on their own journey where, um, then you can kind of stand back and maybe provide some subtle guidance, but effectively they're on their way.

Professor Stephen Dobson (16:33):

Another kind of teaching question. Do you find that the students coming in, that they're on their journey, obviously, and some will have to acquire certain technical skills? Sure. Uh, some will have a personal project, and then, uh, uh, I'm always reminded of this, coming from Norway, everything was Edward Monk.

Patrick Connor (16:54):

Right.

Professor Stephen Dobson (16:55):

Yeah. And the only thing people know about Monk is he painted the screen. But in the 1890s, he had a project over several paintings. He wanted to paint the grammar of the emotions. Mm-Hmm. Each painting was in emotion. So do you find that, that one thing is that question, so what does color mean? Mm-Hmm. But also do you find you're teaching people how to work with their emotions as well and how they imprint them?

Patrick Connor (17:22):

Hmm. Probably less so. Mm-Hmm. Um, being involved in the creative process expects that you are reflective and reflexive. Mm-Hmm. And I think that's a really critical part of, um, developing, uh, your own practice. Um, I think it was very much a part of the way we valued early modern art, and in particular at that time, time with the German expressionists and other, um, formative, uh, early 20th century movements was, uh, valuing of human subjectivity. You know, who's the individual in this strange new world? Uh, I think probably more at the, um, latter end of the century. There was less of an interest in, um, that individual's insight from the point of view of them expressing, you know, outwardly their emotions, um, warts and all. Uh, and, um, in particular, probably like I noted a little bit earlier in our previous conversation, Mm-Hmm. Kind of linking, if you like, those insights about the individual experience.

Patrick Connor (18:32):

Not so much the individuality, but the individual experience of being in, you know, their contemporary world. How do I relate to the world around me? There's those sorts of things are very similar. Mm-Hmm. But, um, uh, as a teacher, is it about supporting and navigating a student with their emotions? I think less so. Um, it's about, um, developing, I think a range of different skills that they know they can draw upon at any given point in time, whether that be design skills or understanding creative processes, and, um, in particular, understanding critical thinking and how it dovetails perfectly into creative thinking. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I think it's less about emotions and probably more about thoughtfulness.

Professor Stephen Dobson (19:18):

My kind of final question, and, and you can see I'm quite interested in that interaction between the teacher and the student. Do you find your students come in and they say, I want to learn this particular skill, um, I want to learn to, um, be a great printer, or I want to print this particular kind of things. Do you find that in a way the students that are coming through are quite open-minded to borrow your phrase, or they're the opposite, they're very fixed and you find your opening their world?

Patrick Connor (19:50):

Mm-Hmm. I'd be making generalizations there. Mm-Hmm. Um, the cohorts that I've had the pleasure of teaching are very diverse. Mm-Hmm. Extremely diverse, which is a part of the beauty of it. Mm-Hmm. Um, all people from all walks of life, ethnicities and experiences, um, are in our studio spaces. And it makes for really interesting communities where they begin to have faith in each other, trust each other, and, um, you know, rely on each other to a certain degree. And, um, you become a part of that process. Mm-Hmm. Um, no, I think some of our students are very keen on, they make assumptions that you are there to teach them technical things. Mm-Hmm. I wanna learn how to paint, I want to learn how to draw, and that's the foundation of why I'm here. But of course, um, even though, uh, that's important to what it is that we do, there are other things as well that we do. And, um, sometimes it takes a little bit of time to see the merits of those things. Mm-Hmm. We were talking about color earlier, and, uh, you know, initially, you know, I hate being a teacher to start off a, um, a class using theoretical terms. Let's talk about color theory, <laugh>, and, uh, you know, it, students kind of start to, you know, to yawn at that point, don't they? Yeah, yeah.

Professor Stephen Dobson (21:11):

Of course. Of course.

Patrick Connor (21:12):

But unfortunately, it's sometimes, it's, it's the terminology. It's the mental language that enables you to think in a way that where you've never been able to think before. And it enables a kind of agility of mind that helps you navigate through that creative process. And before you know it, you're not even thinking really about the, the weirdness of the terminology. It's a part of the way that you behave. Mm-Hmm. It becomes central to what you do, um, moment by moment in your creative process. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, then, you know, once, if you've managed to find a useful way of introducing the terminology, it's only when you begin to apply it does it, you know, does it make sense and does it become a little bit more fun? Otherwise, they're just kind of weird novel ideas, aren't they?

Professor Stephen Dobson (21:57):

Lovely. And, uh, I'll, I'll close in a moment and say for me what you, you do, when I look at your painting and your works of arts for me, they're, you're a great storyteller. And the reason I say that is because through the mediums you use, you make me dream stories. And I, and I love that, uh, for me, my personal experience of your art is that I imagine myself in those spaces and those situations in dialogue with you. I love it. Thank you very much, pat.

Patrick Connor (22:25):

Thank you very much, Stephen. Thank you. Pleasure talking with you.

Professor Stephen Dobson (22:29):

Thank you.